Of expatriots, tourists and forums.

[Py]

We, tourists and residents both, just have different points of view looking at the same subject.

For the visitor this is a place that represents two weeks(?) of unparaleled liberty and exotic sensorial experience. It is a breakaway time, far flung from the orbit of the daily grind and all that entails.

For the resident, this is the grind, this is life. We don't only deal with the face presented to the buyer of paradisiacal images/experiences. We deal with the full, multi faceted nature of the beast in all its moods and incarnations. Some are not so pretty.

Something as annoying as the ridiculous traffic scenarios here can seem to the visitor, rinky-dink, laughably quaint or dangerously third-world and definitely something for the stories back home. To the foreign resident, particularly one who has grown up in a well thought out civic infrastructure, this is the day in, day out reality that colors a lifetime.

It is natural that somebody who views a place through the prisms of pleasure and play would look at the writings of someone like Bert and wonder in baffled horror. I have actually directed several expat friends to this site in order to read his stories and they all found them vastly amusing, but more to the point, they echoed much common experience. Yes they are dark, yes they are morbid, but this is the essential point. If they were published, say, in Australia, they would be seen for what they are, and different tastes would respond in accordance to their individual whim. To live here is to 'be', that is to 'be' who you are as a living, breathing creature between birth and death, and always in response to your immediate environment. To visit here is to live a delicious but fleeting moment as a joyous construction of ones own fantasy. It is also a compressed absolution of a pent-up back-log of incrementally built up frustrations.

The expatriot inevitably sees the 'groping', 'ignorant' and 'gormless' tourist as 'lightweight'. In turn, the visiting tourist sees the 'holier than thou' expat as willfully standing between them and the 'real Bali' they strive for, all the while reminding them, school bully style, of their reduced status. Not pleasant or desired. They are both, in mutually distinct ways, threatened by one another.

Certain things on this forum will appear absurdly inappropriate to the more casual Bali visitor. Those that partake regularly on this forum right now, are for the most part somewhat isolated in odd and far flung corners of the province. Zontius, for example, lives on the Island of Nusa Lembongan and god only knows how remote that must feel in the off season. Gloria and Bert both live in the north, not exactly a hot bed of international exchange. I, in turn, live in my studio and often kick around the www. waiting for paint to dry. We are all to some degree displaced twice and though we have chosen this diasporas life, there is 'always' a need to create a society and a culture of sorts. Some need to write, some to kvetch, some just be heard in a familiar cultural language.

That a rather juvenile and persnickety competition should have evolved between two forums is, certainly from any distance, rather silly. I am as guilty as the next in abetting this outcome. I will stop. This forum was never going to be fast, no one ever thought otherwise. It can become what it is best suited for and has seeming already started in that direction. It has not yet been advertised nor set up with the necessary conduits that will feed it new blood, this will happen in time.

The fact is expatriots, for the most part, don't have, nor do they want to give, answers to questions concerning room rates and drivers. I personally have no Idea and it just makes me think of masses of pink people who appear at various times of year. Recent and regular visitors have this information fresh on their minds and can recall it in an instant and what is more, they probably take a certain nostalgic pleasure in the sharing of it.

The truth is that what we regulars on both of these forums have in common is compulsion and an addictive personality. That certain individuals have a natural chemical friction with others is as old as time and deeply inscribed into the very success of life itself. That is not of importance here. What is impotent is that expatriots and visitors should sometimes see at cross purposes is ultimately inevitable. It is not bad, but it is inevitable.

So let us allow this forum be this forum and the BTF be the BTF, a sometimes mundane chain of repetitive questions, sometimes highly informative and well intentioned and periodically a beehive of amusing and adrenalized repartee. I would like to think all are welcomed on each.

[Gloria]

Thank you Py...your words are our words...why else would each and every one of us almost sneek into each forum having a squiz at whats going on...not to pick up a titbit of something detrimental to add fuel to past fires but to genuinely seek interesting facts and thoughts. We all have thought provoking messages to offer,which is precisely why we are "forumites" .We are all the THINKERS of society. The tourist section....they think carefully about their holiday...where they want to stay,what to do about taxis etc...they are ,to a certain extent...the planners who, quite rightly want to get as much as they can out of their well earned holiday...they want to know this island but not the way others do who live here, who are bonded to the Bali magic...expats and the like . Expats are , as you said, of a different species,they are "the prefects of the school" or believe they are...Bali really is just that....a school.....of thought. Theres those who want to play....and theres those who are serious students....However...theres lots to learn from all angles in life....this uneasy World situation we are ALL caught up in could easily become gravely serious for everyone....and Forums may turn out to be a vitally needed connection to the outside World....just as the BTF was in the early days of the bomb....it played a very important role in speeding up co-ordination with Australia and Indonesia,government and volunteers, it started the SOS for medicine and medical personell ,it put people back together,it warned...it healed...it hurt...it cried the emotion of thousands and united the World to Bali...without the BTF it would have been impossible for us to have told the story....I personally thank the BTF and its members for the "special " time ...post bomb...when things were different...and love and trust was still intact.ALL OF US SHARED THE GRIEF ....remember. I will still pop in to your Forum and invite you to mine...just to see whats going on...maybe ,in time ,there will be an acceptance of both...more than that...a respect of both....support even...you never know, we may need each other again one day...very soon I,d say....Anyway thankyou again Py...your picture of the scene was perfect...best of luck to all....G.....

[BouncingTigger]

Thanks Py,
I too have been guilty of forum bashing and as a passive poster but active observer I enjoy reading both forums. Although I find this forum more interesting and informative this should not negate the postives of the BTF. I look forward to reading your's and others thoughts on life etc etc

Lauren

[Ringo]

OM Swastyastu

Although not an expat yet it has been a long time since I looked at Bali through the eyes of the average tourist :)

I guess that the idea of "living in Bali" often turns out different than one originally expected, that is, if the pitfalls are not discovered in time.

You leave the rat-race of the Western World behind merely to find new challenges on your path of life: the world behind those Smiles :-)

It's like the Balinese Upacara, the religious ceremonies.

These ceremonies are attractive events for the tourists, but are certainly not a touristic attraction! They have a very important meaning in the lives of the Balinese.

Although seen and discussed by the tourist, seldom a word is spent on that mysterious world that is behind the outer appearance of what was seen.

Why should we refer to 'that other forum', any of us, be it here on on 'that other one'. The only difference between 'this one' and 'the other one' is that 'out there' you are in the jungle, not protected by any rules.

But if there is an inner-balance inside of you I'm sure you will survive

;-)

OM santi santi santi OM

[marcia]

i'm sick of the attacks against either forum. Each have something to offer. Personally. i'm a 'light weight'. I don't come here or go there for any great intellectual stimuli. I go to forums to play, and if i happen to learn something worthwhile while playing, it's a good thing.
Now, about the more important things like the price of ikat lately? If you wanna throw in how it's made, that's fine with me . :P
As for Bert's story, i've really enjoyed reading it. That pic though... Hope ya don't do pics for a living Bert!

[Bert Vierstra]

Hope ya don't do pics for a living Bert!

This one was for playing.

Some others are for my living though.

[BouncingTigger]

Hey just looked at the pics you do for a living. Impressive~~ I think I need you to improve my pic

[Lothar]

nice to discover that you all are kids like me .... forum here forum there, tzt tzt... guys/gals, it's just 2 rooms in 1 house, that's how I see it afar from Malaysia....
oh yes, and I'm now in the kitchen, cooking mooh pad per waan, ped ped :)

[Thorsten]

Py congrats to your great posting.

When Lothar and you asked me to join this forum, I was surprised and asked why, had no idea, what I should contribute here, because as everybody knows, I'm neither an expat nor an very good connoisseur of Bali.
So well, you opened this forum also to people which are not directly involved into Balinese matters and I agree with you, that sometimes its good to have a cross-over of thoughts and different points of view, that's what I always appreciated.

I feel like Marcia in this case, it makes me sick, when I'm told at the BTF "go & stroke your ego with them",
I don't know, why the one should exclude the other.
There are very bright people over there, there are experts over there and there decent and friendly people over there, but there are also some trash-talkers and ignorants, like everywhere you go.
I also liked to read Bert's Harry stories here, they are simply reflecting the truth, if somebody likes this or not,
at the other hand, not every posting at this forum was able to delight me, but that's also normal, different people have different opinions, some more tolerance would sometimes facilitate a lot of things.

What I wanted to express in my posting at the BFT was the following, I don't expect that there is a really improvement of the situation on Bali the next time, I don't expect, that the masses of tourists will return due
some very serious developments on this planet.
I think that the people in and out Bali should be prepared for this situation, but if there are suppliers outside, they should be informed about the circumstances right in time, the BTF is more proper for this, simply because its
more frequented as this forum.
The bomb changed the life at Bali and it will effect the situation there longer, than the most people expect.

In the opposite to the terror attack, now there would be time to develop a strategy for the case, the things get worse, a travel forum without travellers makes no sense anymore, but maybe I'm also wrong with my estimation,
I hope so.

Regards

Thorsten

[Lothar]

the tourism industry world wide is anticipating the worst downturn since WWII.
A likely Iraq war end of Jan/start Feb 03 will let all hell break loose around the world, with a never before thought possible escalation of terror attacks. Everywhere, anywhere, any time. Nowhere will be safe, and airplanes are one of the weakest links to travel on anyway.

I would not write this down if I wouldn't be damn serious what I write. So, I am very serous.

I agree with you Thorsten - the Kuta Bomb was just the beginning of long-lasting, changing times for Bali - and the world.