Thread: Check the access to your land and beware of passive/active ADAT

One more point that I forgot to mention: our permit IMB is for a `rumah tinggal` (house) of 4 bedrooms only. Not a hotel of dozens or hundreds rooms...

These "fees" are ridiculous. However, you are now a part of that community, so I would contribute something. Perhaps a few Rp million. Hold your foot down on the rental "fees". None of their business.

Liesna

We are having the same problem, bought a house in a village last november, after the formalities were completed, safety ticket and right of ownership was completed etc access problems arose in January. The village leader informed us that a number of people (they remain annonymous) wanted acces payments as the bridge at the bottom of the access lane belonged to them. This demand also occured after a property under construction at the end of the lane after the bridge and had its access blocked and only reopened after the owner payed a subsantial amount of money, since payment the receivers of the money have disappeared along with the legal advisor.

The access effects several properties and the demand is for Rp 400mil which will increase if not agreed. To compound the problem the immediate land at the main road access has recently been bought and buyer is also looking for access payments. The access at the bridge has already been blocked twice and negotiations are still ongoing. . The question of right of ownership of the access road has been asked and no one will produce paper work to show who owns it, several meetings have ocurred but with as yet no resolution. The people demanding the payment do not show up for the meetings and do not want any legaly binding agreement made by a notary. If there is no legally binding agreement what is to stop these people demanding further payment in the future.

It seems strange that the access issue has arisen only after several properties have been built and the lane has been used for a long time, power utitilies are in place and again look to have been installed for a long period. What someone has to produce is a document detailing what access has been previously granted, access must have been granted in order to build the properties and to install the utilities. One question to be asked is do access rights change on sales of land, does one agreement made by one owner become invalid when sold and can the new owner ask for access payments which may seem to be case on the recent sale at the main rode access, it all seems a grey area and confusing............that is why legal paperwork must be made available which for some reason no one wants to produce

I don't have a problem in paying some money towards the community as we have made our home here and want to be part of and support the village, but what this feels like is being taken advantage of. I can see some of the points of view of some of the villagers as they see properties being built and rented out for the tourism industry with no benefit for the local community, ours is used as full time lived in residential home for my family. What was a dream is turning into a nightmare. Knowing what I know now I would not have made what was a considerable investment and would advise other people to tread warily when buying in Bali.

Robin, We also had to pay for road access. The first person to ask for 7 million rp didn't own the road. He just hoped we would give him 7 million. Then someone else popped up who said she owned the road. We would not pay until we met with her at the notaris' office and she was required to bring her certificate of land ownership with her to the meeting. We also have the paperwork drawn up by the notaris giving us permanent right-of-way over the road.

Liesna, you perhaps should also demand to see the certificate of ownership. If they cannot prove they own the land and continue to block the road why would you not call the police?

Originally Posted by Robin

Liesna

We are having the same problem, bought a house in a village last november, after the formalities were completed, safety ticket and right of ownership was completed etc access problems arose in January. The village leader informed us that a number of people (they remain annonymous) wanted acces payments as the bridge at the bottom of the access lane belonged to them. This demand also occured after a property under construction at the end of the lane after the bridge and had its access blocked and only reopened after the owner payed a subsantial amount of money, since payment the receivers of the money have disappeared along with the legal advisor.

The access effects several properties and the demand is for Rp 400mil which will increase if not agreed. To compound the problem the immediate land at the main road access has recently been bought and buyer is also looking for access payments. The access at the bridge has already been blocked twice and negotiations are still ongoing. . The question of right of ownership of the access road has been asked and no one will produce paper work to show who owns it, several meetings have ocurred but with as yet no resolution. The people demanding the payment do not show up for the meetings and do not want any legaly binding agreement made by a notary. If there is no legally binding agreement what is to stop these people demanding further payment in the future.

It seems strange that the access issue has arisen only after several properties have been built and the lane has been used for a long time, power utitilies are in place and again look to have been installed for a long period. What someone has to produce is a document detailing what access has been previously granted, access must have been granted in order to build the properties and to install the utilities. One question to be asked is do access rights change on sales of land, does one agreement made by one owner become invalid when sold and can the new owner ask for access payments which may seem to be case on the recent sale at the main rode access, it all seems a grey area and confusing............that is why legal paperwork must be made available which for some reason no one wants to produce

I don't have a problem in paying some money towards the community as we have made our home here and want to be part of and support the village, but what this feels like is being taken advantage of. I can see some of the points of view of some of the villagers as they see properties being built and rented out for the tourism industry with no benefit for the local community, ours is used as full time lived in residential home for my family. What was a dream is turning into a nightmare. Knowing what I know now I would not have made what was a considerable investment and would advise other people to tread warily when buying in Bali.

Thanks for your support. I went to the Kantor Dinas today and they say it has nothing to do with them, they don t have such rules. It concerns the adat. For thoses who don t know: Dinas office is for matters relating the state (pemerinta) and the Adat is related to the traditions and religious matters.
So, the Kelian Adat is too weak to take any responsibilities and the little group of five young businessmen are deciding int the name of the whole village and, as they can t ask anything by law, they use the sacred word : ADAT. Whoever oppose the adat is an enemy of the village.

I went to the top leader of the province of Gianyar and told him I wanted to learn about the Adat in Bali. He spoke 30 minutes about the religion in detail and the social contribution of each citizen (a few kilos of rice or sugar, and at most, a few thousands rupiah of cash for the ones who want).
Nothing to do with access road or business share or lands bought or sold...

I love Bali and bring to Bali billions I earn abroad to the citizens while europe is in deficit. If the Kepala adat allows things like this to happen, it turns their beautiful culture and religion into a mere racist mafia. If you didn t notice yet, jealousy is the virus on this island.

I ll keep you informed and promise to mention names on facebook and national TV station if the terror continue.

Originally Posted by Peter Ka

These "fees" are ridiculous. However, you are now a part of that community, so I would contribute something. Perhaps a few Rp million. Hold your foot down on the rental "fees". None of their business.

Sure, I am willing to contribute and asphalt 30 meters of road that most of them use everyday to `compensate` , the little team replied that as I will also use that road, it s not fair
Plus I do agree on giving 100kg of rice every 6 months (cash rice of course).

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I can only feel for you. I wish I could help but this needs a lawyer or at least someone who can represent you in this matter.

Some Balinese reply that the adat is above the law, so ...no police, no lawyer.
the second meeting I had with them started this way: `we took a decision that we are going to read now, and you cannot negociate` (in Indonesian of course). Did I mention that the fee of 3000$ was to `welcome` us in the village? As I explained above, I just went to the `ketua Adat`of the province today as the Kelian adat doesn t seems to be able to handle this case and the wishes of a bunch of young godfathers.

Liesna, it's a bit of a horror story. I don't have an magic answer. But when, in a market, absurd prices are asked, and the vendor won't negotiate, you walk away. Here because of your investment so far it is difficult to walk away, and they know this and think therefore they can win.

So for sure you should be seeking to find whether you can undermine them perhaps by finding influential people that can help. But while you are doing this, I would also heed the advice of the Adat and stop the construction, and make it look like you may indeed walk away. If they get the feeling they may actually get nothing, then they may be willing to consider smaller amounts.

Also, if you do have the flexibility to pause the project for a year or so, its possible that this particular group will lose respect and power in the village.

Anyhow, I wish you luck in your endeavours - and hope some breakthrough occirs.