Thread: Bali marriage...

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

What I meant by changing the choice given at the kantor imigrasi, that would make me a 'legal' hindu and therefor allowed to marry a hindu-lady.

I do not leave in Bali nor I am familiar with hindu religion, however I would like to warn you on one point. It may be not a matter of being a hindu on paper... but to prove it on paper also. When I was a kid, I was given a catholic education back home and went through various rites which were all recorded on papers (surat baptis...etc). When I married in Indonesia some years ago, I became a protestant... However, to be able to become a protestant and to marry in this religion, I had to show proofs of my earlier christian education, with all the documents I had about my previous religious education, to the pendeta and to the CaPil in my hometown here! My "conversion" was then very easy, since I just had to do a speech in a ceremony held at the church two weeks prior to my wedding.
Just wondering if you would not be requested to show some proof of a "real" (at least administrative) religious education or conversion to hinduism rather than just showing a KITAS with "hindu" on it to be legally authorised to marry. My knowledge of hindu religion is however very limited, and I think that Bert's answer on the question would be more accurate than mine.

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

About living on Bali, and therefor have to do it the Bali way, I agree..some things yes, other things absolutely not. Yes, to for example, tiga bulanan potong babi. Absolutely not, to for example, offering a little puppy-dog for a new house ceremonie(read that somewhere on the forum).

Where I live, we eat dogs and you will find them sold in supermarket also, like you would find pork's meat or beef's meat. They are just separated by a couple of meters no more. People raise dogs to kill them fot the next "pesta". I do raise my dogs (rotties) for totally other reasons... but after a few years here, I feel no problem to eat my neighbour's dogs if offered to. Culture is something you integrate and swallow little by little I guess, years after years. You won't become a balinese hindu and accept (or tolerate) any customs over one night...

Hi,
Bert, I live on Bali in a small village, not married (ok), i'm not Hindu, but I am also not Isolated. I contributed to several temples, and went to several ceremonies. Here in the Desa, but also to the temple in Panji. I do that out of respect to the people who invite me to come, They don't care if I'm Hindu or not...They say something like, kamu orang yang sangat baik dan rama, dan kita senang sama kamu. I also always get an invite if there's a upacara in the Desa. I always say that religion is not important to me, if I like you-I like you, dan kalau saya baik sama kamu, pasti kamu juga baik sama saya. answer---Betul pak.Maybe it's because I doesn't mather to me if I interact with a farmer or with the Bupati, or the Ketua Kapolda, they all get the same kind of respect and 'goodwill' from me. I do however change my clothing appropriate to the occasion, so if I join to a temple ceremonie, I dress accordingly. ( to show respect)
Yeah, I've witnessed the killing of a pig, but have seen that before when I was young in Switzerland, so that didn't shock me. It's all about what one has grown to become used to, dogs I (maybe we) see them as pets, not food. If I would have been born here and grew up here, I would have the same 'attitude' towards dogs as the Balinese have. I can therefor relate to their customs, don't like it, but understand them.
However I think you're absolutely right, that although we (westerners) live here an are part of every day life, we will always be that 'outsider' sometimes. Me personally, if I dont open my mouth(speaking Bahasa Indonesia), they think I'm Indonesian, hahaha. Mam is originally from Bandoeng, and my father was Dutch, so I have some Indonesian features.
Oh yeah, I have two temples(don't exactly know which one is for what), their both in the northeast corner of the property, the wife of the guy who takes care of the padi, puts every morning some rice and sugar and coffee there, sometimes eggs, fruit or kue. But like I said don't know what kind of temple they are for sure, thought one was for the house and the other for the land. Sometimes I also find some beautiful flowers in a woven little basket on the car, and on the bike. For safe travels see said. Come to think of it...maybe that's the reason some drive like crazy, they thinking 'I have offered flowers, nothing will happen' ?
Anyways, thanks again Bert for making me 'profit' from your experiences.
friendly greetings, Gilbert.

Hi Kabim,
Wow, that would create a real problem, since I have not had a religious upbringing or education. Only one year at school when I was 12, I had to go to bibleclass, That's it, so in no way compareable with a real religious education, like you have had. I also have no clue if one has to proof he/she is Hindu? Don't think that for example a toothfiling ceremonie, one gets a certificate afterwarths? Administration is not one of the strongest points of the Balinese, at least thats my humble opinion, based on some accountingbooks I had a look at.
Maybe with religion it is different and they keep files in better order?
Now a little off-topic, Rotties...as in Rottweiler right? How many do you have? I have brought mine over from NL(Netherlands). Had Rot's as long as I can remember...I mean when I was born there was a rotweiler in the family, and since then never had been without at least one.

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

Wow, that would create a real problem, since I have not had a religious upbringing or education.

If I wouldn't have had the papers, it would not have been a problem. No worries, mate. They would have for sure "educate" me and provide me with the right certificate to show. :D
It would have just delayed a bit my wedding and forced me to hear with a rather stupid smile on my face, things I don't believe in.
Note that I don't say that you will have to show any proof of "religious education" if you decide one day to marry in the hindu tradition. I just raise the question.

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

Now a little off-topic, Rotties...as in Rottweiler right? How many do you have?

I have two, male and female. They are just wonderful, especially the female. The boy has a tough character but is OK, as long as I am around.
The male is imported and has german and hungarian decent while the female is born in Indonesia from imported parents. These dogs are just fantastic. I am away from Indonesia about 4 months a year but I know that my wife, kids and houses are safe... :)

Originally Posted by JohnnyCool

If you did that and returned to Bali, you would then have to do some paperwork to officially register your marriage locally (ie, in Indonesia). I know because I did it.

Definitively right JC. Marrying abroad requires for the couple to report to the Catatan Sipil in the delay of 30 days after being back to Indonesia (pasal 37 undan-undang nomor 23 tahun 2006 tentang administrasi kependudukan). Prior to 2006, the delay for reporting was set to 1 year. It is not the case anymore. The Catatan Sipil will issue a "Surat Tanda Bukti Laporan Perkawinan" which is a legal recognition of the marriage. Without it, the girl would be considered as "single" by Indonesian law.

Hi Y'all,
Thanks for all the different views and opinions.
Marrying abroad is ofcourse an option when the time comes. I wouldn't know however how the inlaws would feel about that? Then still on return one has to convert to comply to the family rules, maybe.
Regarding to the law, I have no negative or positive feelings about it. It's just the Law and is easily to 'go around', around as in changing your religion.
Checked with Imigrasi, and I would be considered a 'legal' Hindu if I change my choice there when renewing my KITAS. I also don't have to proof me being Hindu. With the papers of the Imigrasi, I can then get the Surat Tanda Bukti Laporan Perkawinan. However I am not sure if I want to do that, as I understand not everybody does that? Don't know their(Balinese) reasons, mine would be for possible tax reasons, don't know yet how a marriage would influence my taxes I pay in NL.
Since not marrying abroad but here in Bali would be my choice, is there then a time-limit to report the marriage?
I have also talked to the priest of the Desa, and he said that if I wanted a ceremonie for marriage, he would take care of it. So the legal side and the religious side are covered.
Now only have to find that special one, hahaha.
Friendly greetings.....Gilbert.