Reply With QuoteIt is 2009 right now, but this thread is still a good reminder: be alert, people are people, even (or especially) in mesmerizing places.
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RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud
Thank you. This year I am home and all the things I wanted last year are here including a very good Warres vintage port which may well need an extra gout tablet to recover from.
Midnight mass on Christmas Eve followed next day by a very traditional dinner......always with a twist from Maria who manages to put chillies in something (not yet in the figgy pudding) and my family all around me make up for a lot.
Indonesia and Bali in July next year and just received a financial rebate make all this a win win situation.
Regards Jimbo
Re: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud
It is 2009 right now, but this thread is still a good reminder: be alert, people are people, even (or especially) in mesmerizing places.
>> Pee - Poo - Pie - Pea - Nuts <<
And the whole question is: are we really supposed to shave the planet...?
Anyway, if your nominee's heir want to undo the contract you made with the original nameholder, can't you simply use another nominee instead? How could he screw you if you have a mortage/loan agreement on the land? Legally speaking, sure he inherits the land but he also inherits a huge debt correpsonding to the value of the land, so how can things turn sour?Originally Posted by rien.gluvers
But I though Hipotek were written on the land title?
And even if it's not, if you have a Hak Pakai on it (in addition to the nominee agreement and the loan/mortgage agreement), your ass is covered, isn't?
Ok, relax for starters.
When you buy land in Bali you SHOULD make sure your name is included on the certificate and that you keep possession of that document - your notary will do that. This means that nothing can happen with the document without your being informed or required to agree.
If your name is not on the certificate and even if you keep possession of it then, theoretically, your nominee could still go to the police station and declare it as stolen or lost and receive a new one. With which he cold then proceed to sell the land! With your name on it this can not happen.
Should your nominee step in front of a bemo and go to the happy Babi Guling festival in the sky then his earthly goods pass automatically to his wife and then children (in Bali no will is needed and mostly they don't bother either) - nothing has changed, well for you - your nominee might not be quite so happy. Your name is still on the original certificate and the name of the new "owner" will now be added to it. There is still a large mortgage on the land payable by the new nominee (wife or child of the original nominee).
If you feel that this is fraught with danger and uncertainty just look at the "normal" difficulties that happen in our "rule of law" countries with regards to land sale and purchase - it keeps a whole shit-load of lawyers busy.
OK thank you Markit. It confirms what I thought : if you do things properly, it's relatively safe...
Hi Sorry to get back on this again :-), but I just wanna make sure of something.
If you get a mortgage on the land, this is enough to get your name on the certificate, right? I just want a confirmation on this. Because I plan to get a lease on it, not a Hak Pakai...
Another question regarding the lease : can i put a very low value for the lease in order to minimize the Tax levied on land lease (PPH)? Or is it not advisable?
Thank you for your answer and sorry to sound a bit nervous, I'm a complete rookie in buying property : it will be my first big purchase ever and I'll do it in a rather complicated environment, so I prefer to check and double check everything...
You are absolutely right to double check but I would strongly suggest you do it with a lawyer rather than an informal furum such as this. Even with the best of intentions there are no legal experts in here.
Regards Jimbo
Umm I do agree with Jimbo about there not being an legal authorities here on the forum and that you should really, really take professional advise.
The only slight problem with that is that even getting the expert advise is can be fraught with problems here.
1) almost none of them speak English and I'm told the one guy in Kuta that does (Peter, Paul or Mary? forget the name) is also of questionable value and sincerity.
2) to be honest I reckon the best legal advise in the world would tell you "don't buy land in Indonesia" and they would be right - from a legalistic point of view, not from the point of view of someone that just wants to live here.
3) there is no security in the world other than death and taxes - they are for sure, the rest - who knows?
You write "If you get a mortgage on the land, this is enough to get your name on the certificate, right?"
You will not get a mortgage here in Bali. I'm sure you meant something else, but what, I don't know?
You write "can i put a very low value for the lease in order to minimize the Tax levied on land lease (PPH)?"
Putting a low value on the land will minimize your notary fees and land taxes but the land taxes are so minimal anyway who cares? You must put a realistic value on the nominee agreement otherwise, for instance lets say you put a total value on the nominee agreement of 500 million rupiah but in reality your house and land are worth 3 billion ($300,000) your nominee could (only saying he could, not would) borrow 500 million rupiah and pay off the debt and then be the proud owner of your land and house for the cool price of $50,000...
Don't worry about being nervous that's a perfectly healthy reaction to possibly loosing a shed load of money.
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