Thread: Selling on Line In Bali

Unless "regulations" have changed in Indonesia, a "business visa" does not allow someone to work here. Check it out.

The "logic" in this statement by Roy is his logic. Appealing as it is, I don't think it's true.

...To the extent that a business visa allows a foreigner to conduct business within Indonesia, and one regards that business as their work, then sure enough a business visa allows one to work in Indonesia...

So - If this were true, why would anybody need or want a work visa (like a Kitas)? Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm sure I'll be "corrected" in due course.

My understanding of Indonesia's "Business Visa" is that it allows foreigners to come and go to "explore" business "opportunities", etc,...NOT to work.

...then sure enough a business visa allows one to work in Indonesia...

Unfortunately, that's NOT the case. Maybe somebody has to define what "work" is supposed to be in Indonesia, regarding foreigners.

Despite Indonesian government attempts to wipe out "corruption", it still seems rampant. People with powerful connections still get away with murder. "Want to work on a Business Visa? No problem...Pay this, pay that..."

All well and good until, and if, the shit hits the fan somewhere down the line.

:evil:

Phil, I've had a business visa for eight years. That's 16 total business visas issued variously at either the Indo embassy in Bangkok or Singapore. Each of those visas have been renewed a total of 64 times at immigration here in Denpasar...and all through PT Bali Ide. Moreover, each of those 16 business visas (single entry for me) involved 16 entries into Indonesia, and inherent with that, 16 more opportunities of scrutiny by immigration at the airport!

Now, wouldn't you think that after 16 business visa issuances, 64 renewals and 16 arrivals, that if the visa was not the right visa for me and, the business activities I am involved with, that maybe I would have heard about that by now?

The original poster, Balilover, has stated that they want to live in Bali and conduct business by the internet. Having no "brick and mortar" business like a gallery or restaurant, a business visa should be more than initially sufficient.

But, and as I previously wrote Phil,

"the OP can check with PT Bali Ide to be certain."

Another point here Phil is that it is always easier to go up the visa ladder rather than down. In other words, if a business visa is deemed sufficient for Balilover, then it would be unwise for him or her to start off with a kitas.

Jimbo wrote:

Please do not send me a long and detailed explanation of why you are right because nothing you say unless you can produce written documentation agreeing to your actions by the immigration department will convince me.

Gee Jimbo, don’t you think the actions by both the Indonesian embassies in issuing those 16 business visas AND their subsequent 64 renewals by immigration here in Bali constitute an agreement that such visa was correct for the business activity? I guess you’ll just have to trust me that I didn’t pay anyone off, or offer bribes.

So Bert, you would discount the advice of PT Bali Ide?

Things going "ok" for years, doesn't mean they ARE ok.

Is that a personal anecdote? Have you had a nasty visa experience?

Simply, living and working in Indonesia requires a Kitas, and a job that is "approved" by the Indonesian government.

In that case, then why is there a business visa at all...and furthermore, why are those visas good for up to one half a year per visa...just like sosbud?

I certainly would not advice anyone to follow the same path as Roy.

Why? Because they could get deported or thrown in jail? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good grief Bert!

One can review this web site for a exhaustive list of activities allowable under a business visa. While it states there that business visas only apply for up to 60 days, the reality is that they can, and they are extendable at the immigration office for up to 4 times 30 days...same as sosbud visas, unless some change in that has just been made...like within the last month.

http://pubweb.fdbl.com/ihp8/global/m...a?opendocument

Balilover’s original question was,

“I understand I am not able to work in bali, but would I be able to buy and then sell online from bali????”

These are among the many business related activities allowable under a business visa:

-Making field visits to Indonesian affiliates or companies to discuss commodities to be purchased or sold in the import/export business.

-Performing the task of controlling the quality of goods to be imported from Indonesia.

-Executives and managers traveling to Indonesia to negotiate with unrelated third parties who are potential acquisition targets, or to negotiate contracts for joint ventures, manufacturing affiliations, joint marketing, sourcing and licensing agreements.

Each of these three activities, which in my view define the essentials of import/export, or buying and selling, are allowable under a business visa and do not require a work permit (kitas) visa.

Business activities which do require a work permit (kitas) are as follows, but I don’t see where any would apply to an internet only business:

-Installing and repairing machinery.

-Individuals traveling to Indonesia to give a commercial seminar or provide business training.

-Visits by internal auditors to inspect the company's balance sheet.

-Carrying out inspections of Indonesian branches.

-Performing emergency or urgent work.

-Providing after sales services to customers in Indonesia.

-Individuals temporarily involved with construction of related company's buildings or plants in Indonesia.

Bert, I agree that it would be incumbent for Balilover to describe his business plan and planned activities to PT Bali Ide in great detail so as to be certain that a business visa would be sufficient for his/her planned activities in Bali. However, to definitively state that Balilover’s ONLY option is a kitas is wrong...and a business visa could well be in full compliance with the law.

As I’ve said...now for three times...the best option for Balilover is to consult with the professionals...PT Bali Ide. That’s it!

OH MY GOD, THE BOOGIE MAN IS COMING! :P :P

1983 to 1991 is 25 to 17 years ago. There have been quite a few changes in immigration laws and visa types since that time Jimbo, but your historical input is appreciated. You might well consider that what was applicable in your situation way back then is not very current or necessarily applicable today!

Jimbo, I am on a business visa because the head of immigration in Bali TOLD ME THAT WAS THE RIGHT VISA for me based on my business activity being strictly internet related! I’ve already made that point in this string. You seem to really enjoy telling folks they are wrong when in fact, you are just guessing, and yourself wrong.

"Simply put you are using the system and getting away with it."

Give me a break Jimbo! That is YOUR view, and it is NOT based on ANY factual information. Isn't there anything better to do in Kazakhstan than getting your exercise by jumping to conclusions? :lol: :lol:

And by the way...who said I'm not paying taxes! More exercise?

Put simply, I think this whole discussion has been rather hilarious.

“I like and respect you Roy but your biggest problem is that you do not know how to say you are wrong.”

I like and respect you too Jimbo, but I am not the one who is wrong. But hey, don’t take my word for it...check with immigration and the professionals at PT Bali Ide.

And by the way, did you even bother to read what business activities are allowed on a business visa as described in the web site I previously linked? Nah, I didn’t think so!

Good grief!

Roy...You certainly are living a charmed life.

I am on a business visa because the head of immigration in Bali TOLD ME THAT WAS THE RIGHT VISA for me based on my business activity being strictly internet related!...

Well, I guess that must be true then. Was your Mood Gallery "strictly internet related"? (Maybe in someone else's name?)

Your quotes from Fragomen's website don't show me that one can "work" on a Business Visa. I had a look for myself and would suggest that you re-read it very carefully.
This section, in particular, with my own emphases:

...Basic Requirements to Apply for a Business Visa
The following requirements for Business Visitors are subject to change or modification:
1. Business visitors must have a residence and an employer outside of the host country and must be traveling to the foreign country for a defined, limited period of time.
2. Business visitors may not receive compensation from the host country; however, incidental expenses such as accommodation, cost of travel, and meals may be paid by the host.
3. Business visitors must have proof of adequate funds to defray expenses while on the business visit.
4. The Business Visitor must have specific, realistic and pre-set plans for his/her stay in Indonesia.
5. The period of intended stay must be consistent with the intended purpose of the trip...

Show us anywhere on that site that says you can live and "work" indefinitely in Indonesia by constantly renewing Business Visas. As I said in an earlier post, if that were the case, why would anybody even bother with a working Kitas? And even if you have a Temporary work permit, according to Fragomen:

...Temporary work permits are valid for a maximum of six months and may not be extended...

I wonder what the word "temporary" means in American English?

Then again, your Frogmen do point out that:

The...requirements for Business Visitors are subject to change or modification...

Does that mean that somewhere down the line Indonesian Immigration Laws have been changed especially for you?

Interestingly, the Frogmen link to Consequences of Non-compliance doesn't work. Ignorance might be bliss for some and I hope you can keep avoiding arrest, or worse. That gold penis you've got buried under the swimming pool might come in handy one of these days...to pay outstanding fines, court costs when you try to sue your visa agent, and so on.

Good grief, indeed!

:shock: