Thread: Teapots in Paradise - Richard Dawkins and my future Kid

To give an example:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ted-human.html

http://www.balidiscovery.com/message...ge.asp?Id=4836

Do I want my kid to accept these kind of things, (and Bali is full of it), to say this was indeed "Reinforcing this Balinese view of the universe" as Bali Discovery reported, or do I want my kid to listen to Luh Ketut Suryani, a professor and activist, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luh_Ketut_Suryani ) who opposed the "ritual" in the Jakarta Post, and she needed to explain the reproductive incompatibility of humans and cows, the innocence of the unnecessary killed cow, and the economic price paid by the people involved?

Ok Kid, listen. Humans sometimes loose it, and have sex with animals. It happens. And it has happened as long as we are on earth. Humans feel shame, especially if their deeds are discussed out in the open. The Balinese have a way of dealing with "difficult" social situations and feelings by means of bending and hiding the truth with "religious" rituals and interpretations. Harmony over Truth.

Now, kid, find yourself 10 (or more) similar situations in our own social circle, where "harmony" is restored by lies of a "religious" nature, and ask yourself if its worth it, if its good in anyway, if its better than the truth. Try to find out how many people actually are aware of the truth, and why they go along.

Not sure how much of this is religious and how much is adat, others who study Hinduism will know more than me. However when it comes to raising kids I do know a thing or three.

Most religions give a good basis for the morals that a child needs to understand as they grow up. When they have grown up they tend to find their own way and path and most are pretty good.

You can also bring them up with the morals of society, do not kill, do not steel etc and nothing wrong with this either. Have a little faith in you child Bert. We can only guide them. We cannot make them in our image because they will find their own.

Try and show by example and if your wife wants them to go through the various Hindu ceremonies well no big thing. Nothing fundamentally bad that I can see. Try teaching dawkins theories or Mohamed or Buddha to a 3 year old and you will not get much of a response. Just be a parent and do your best.

I am pleased with the results I have got for my six, none of who incidentally are religious although my wife is and I am still believing even if I do not know which path to follow.

Good luck regardless.....you will need it :D but oh the joy of it

Love is the most beautiful (and irrational) human feeling. So who are we to judge Grandpa Sutarya's love affair with the cow? Actually, I find the cow rather attractive and I have no difficulty understanding Grandpa's passion for this pretty bovine. As my Grandma used to say (an old Andalusian proverb): "there is a bitch for every dog." I know it does not sound as good in English as it does in Spanish, but you get the meaning of the proverb. So, Grandpa Sutarya had found the love of his life… :lol:

But I am very disappointed with Grandpa's reaction when he was found out. Instead of taking full responsibility for his passion, he right away looked for an excuse for his behavior, like he was in trance, which made him mistake the cow for a beautiful long-haired woman. Fickle Grandpa. How do you think this outright rejection made the cow feel? I think the cow should have gored him right on the spot, and this would have been "divine" (excuse the word) retribution…

And what to think about the villagers' reaction? If there ever was a proof for Anthropologist Claude Levi-Strauss' thesis that man's (and woman's) intelligence has not progressed an iota since the time he/she was still a cave-dweller, this is it: men wallowing in superstitions dating back from the dawn of humanity. Some of the villagers may be able to use a 20th century motor boat (a monkey can thus be trained), but that is not a proof that their intelligence has grown since the Upper Paleolithic time.

Dr. Suryani explaining the basic biological facts that no human can impregnate an animal obviously went over the head of the "leaders" of the village, the ones who, at least, should have a minimum of education to understand this basic fact of life on this earth.

I will also remark that if the village adat (Yes, Jimbo, the adat reflects the religious beliefs of the villagers) was fair, it is Grandpa who should have been drowned, not the cow. But she is a female and this is a man's world, where the men make the law. :evil:

Gee, "not a proof that their intelligence has grown since the Upper Paleolithic time"...

The rest of the world has?

I don't think that basic biology went over the head of villagers. I think they willingly avoided certain truths in order to restore what they call harmony in the village.

And:

The traditional distinction between fact and fiction is inappropriate in Bali, where there is no concept equivalent to the Western idea of fiction

http://blog.baliwww.com/miscellaneous/2336/

No worries.

I'll just ask not to accept answers like "because that's the way it is and had been for a long time" or something similar.

And ask to check "truths" for evidence, and examine the evidence critically, but also compassionately ;)

Oh, and this forum will probably be still online in 20 years, so he or she can read a bit as well :mrgreen: